8 ways to learn a language without using flashcards

My last post turned out to be every bit as controversial as I thought it would. I expected that, because whether right or wrong, people react passionately and defensively any time their beliefs are challenged. (If you want to test that theory, just put a muslim, a christian, and an atheist into a room together!)

I received many comments of agreement, and I also received many comments if almost violent disagreement, but the one thing I was most shocked to see was a comment accusing me of bashing flashcards without telling people what to use instead. This comment surprised me the most because I’ve published more than 200 posts already this year, and I feel that a large number of those involved ways that a person can learn and practice a language. And none of them involved flashcards!

Still, as a followup to the previous post, and as an answer to that complaint, today I’m going to briefly discuss ways to learn a language that are better than flashcards.

1. Write to an email pen pal.

The single most effective way to learn a language is by using it. Email is slow and patient. You can look up words you don’t know — even go learn whole grammatical constructs — without the other person getting impatient.

When you know what you want to say, you’ll know what you need to learn. That means the words you learn will always be useful. And when the other person responds, you’ll see how the language is used, and learn colloquial expressions.

2. Chat with someone.

The single most effective way to learn a language is by using it. Chats are a little slower than live conversation, so you have a little bit of time to look up words you don’t know, or to use Google Translate when you don’t understand something. You can also ask your chat partner to explain things you don’t understand.

When you’re having a conversation, you know what you want to say, so you’ll know what you need to learn. That means the words you look up will always be useful, not just vocab on a list. And when the other person responds, you’ll see examples of how the language is used, and learn colloquail expressions.

3. Talk to someone

The single most effective way to learn a language is by using it. (Are you seeing a pattern here?) Talking to someone is faster than email or chat, so you don’t have much time to look things up, which forces you to find other ways to say what you want to say.

Having a conversation forces you to speak and listen, two things you completely avoid with antisocial things like flashcards. And as I’ve said, when you’re having a conversation, you know what you want to say, so you know what you need to learn. Any time you have trouble in your conversation, write down the words or thoughts you had trouble with and go learn them for next time. Or better yet, just ask the person to whom you’re talking!

4. Listen to music

The single most effective way to learn a language is by using it, even when that’s just for the purpose of enjoying a song. Songs have choruses which are repeated, and you can always listen to a song again, so it has all the repetetive benefits of flashcards, but with the advantage of forcing you to use your ears and understand someone in the new language.

5. Listen to podcasts

The single most effective way to learn a language is by using it. (I’m getting tired of saying it.) A podcast can be paused and played back when you don’t understand something, and if forces you to use your language to understand what is being said, rather than just memorizing words on cards.

6. Start a blog at Lang-8

The single most effective way to learn a language is — everyone say it with me — by using it. Writing a blog is slow and patient. You can look up words you don’t know — even go learn whole grammatical constructs — and then come back and finish.

When you know what you want to say, you’ll know what you need to learn. That means the words you learn will always be useful. And at Lang-8, you have a whole world of native speakers to give you corrections and help you understand how things work.

7. Read a book

Can you guess what is the single most effective way to learn a language? If you said “by using it”, you were right! There is no race when you’re reading, so you can take as much time as you need in order to understand things. You can even put the book down and come back to it weeks later, and it will still be right where you left it.

As a bonus, there are side-by-side “readers” printed in just about every language, so you can turn to the translation on the opposite page when you have trouble. This is particularly nice because it allows you to read translations of whole thoughts, rather than the word-by-word translations you would get from flashcards.

8. Watch a movie

The single most effective way to learn a language is by using it. Watching a movie is a great way to do that. Leave the subtitles off. Just listen to the dialog, and pay attention to what you see on screen. Figure out what’s happening based on what you hear and see, rather than cheating with subtitles.

Movies, like music and podcasts and books, can be watched again and again, so you can continue to practice and improve your ability to hear and understand what is being said. And movie conversations are more like life, in that the dialog is usually mixed in with noises and other sounds like in the real world, rather than being perfectly recorded in a quiet studio.

So now I’ve given you eight ways of learning a new language that are better than flashcards. They are all better because they require you to use the language. And in all cases, you get the bonus of knowing you’re using this new language, rather than hiding and being antisocial while you memorize words on flashcards. After all, you learn a new language to communicate — not as a way to become a hermit!

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  • http://www.polyglot-abc.com/flashcards-ultimate-guide-1000-words/ Juan de Flores

    +9 Write Comments on Blogs
    - Search Blogs that are related to your passion.
    - Don’t be afraid, Write a comment!

    Thanks for your tips.

  • Anonymous

    What Randy is saying is don’t study a language. Flashcards are a hell of work and is difficult to keep motivation at a high when all you are doing is memorising a small card or screen. When he says using a language is better than using flashcards, what he is trying to say is you will get a lot more out of it by listening to music etc.

    I did not learn my mother tongue by constantly reviewing cards at all. I learnt it from watching tv, hearing others speak, listening to nursery rhymes and then songs and attempting to talk. That’s how every one learns there first language. Don’t you agree that that is a better way to learn than memorising vocabulary and reading countless grammar books?

    Using what Randy has said, you are cutting out the middle man, constantly running into the most highly used words, subconsciously remembering them and are also learning grammar without realising it!

  • Anonymous

    “What you do not explain in your blog is the way to learn those words. How can you remember words you used once in an email 2 months later ? You can’t. You may see the word 2 days later in a text, and then 1 week later in a podcast, and then 3 weeks later when watching TV : this is the same as flashcards. ”

    If you see it only once in a period of 2 months, it is not worth the effort to remember. Also, by the time you have learnt and reviewed flashcards, I have already improved pronunciation, spelling, grammar and listening skills by chatting, listening, writing and watching! And yes, that is possible in 15 minutes.

    Secondly, you may remember words but overall, you’re going to have such a difficult time translating. You are going to have to go word for word whilst I don’t because I don’t use flashcards and so have no need to select each individual word seperately and translate that. I translate the whole sentence because of me not using flashcards.

  • Anonymous

    You are doing really well and have got the idea! Don’t give up! :)

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Yes!

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    It’s sad to watch the lengths some people will go to in order to defend their use of a ridiculous, inefficient, possibly even destructive learning tool.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    That is exactly what I’m saying is wrong!

    You should not learn your new language on the back of your native language. They’re not the same! That’s what causes that painful translation step.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, but why bother going through flashcards when all you need to do is learn the words in context (you don’t get that with flashcards) through using it? Using srs is not the same as using a language. Using srs is using computer software. That it completely different.

    Your second language acquisition is not true either, as there are so many people who have went to a country, not knowing anything at all, and learnt the language fluently, all without studying. What Randy describes above is really a simulated sort of way of what I have just said.

    Lastly, he has also said:”If I were a bilingual doctor who needed to review medical terminology, I would get much better review from reading an article in a medical journal than from any flashcards.

    If I need to review the names of foods, I’ll read a recipe. If I need to review travel vocabulary, I’ll go look up information on TrenItalia or something. ”
    That is using the language and you are using what you know from the essential first few weeks of studying. You expand your knowledge of a language not by using flashcards, but by your previous knowledge of that language. Afterall, that bilingual doctor learnt that medical terminology not from flashcards but by reading and using what he already knew. He could just as easily apply that in his second language.

  • Anonymous

    Just another thought,if you truly don’t like flashcards,why are you going out of your way to defend them so much? You find a method boring yet still use that method. Yep… that makes lots of sense.

  • Frapyy

    It’s sad to watch the lengths some people will go to in order to defend their use of a ridiculous, inefficient, possibly even destructive learning tool, as they do not have any argument better than “but you’ve got to translate”, even after having explained that flashcards are just bonus.

  • Anonymous

    They are not a bonus. They are a hindrance. The proof there is in your explanation! No english speaker says because I do read/listen/write/speak… That just sounds odd, stilted and evidence that you have not lived the language anymore! Again, you said “I do not only”. People say “I don’t only…”. While both examples are correct, native speakers are going to hear it and it will sound odd.

    On the otherhand, while you are doing that, I can read for 15 minutes or talk for fiteen minutes and will be a lot better off because of it! Do you see what I mean?

    You will benefit a lot more without them and will so then learn a language a lot quicker.

  • Anonymous

    It’s sad to watch the lengths some people will go to in order to defend their use of a ridiculous, inefficient, possibly even destructive learning tool, because they are so closed-minded that they do not dare to even have a go at learning a language without flashcards.

    I have used flashcards and found them extremely pointless as they were just teaching me words from a screen. Now, because I listened to Randy, I am managing to learn a lot quicker. You just need to look through my comments to see that.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    If you want to insult me, just be direct. You don’t have to be so timid and passive-aggressive about it.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    If you would disagree with me like an intelligent person, I would gladly debate the merits (or lack thereof) of flashcards with you.

    But when you begin by attacking me and saying “it’s funny to read what you say because you don’t understand”, that’s not an intelligent discussion.

    You began by being aggressive. I simply responded in kind.

  • Anonymous

    What side are you actually on?

    Also, this post was written due to the comments he recieved. People said too many times on the previous post that he should tell us of ways to learn instead of critisicing them! Now that is what Randy has done!

    By the way, I am not supporting Randy because I want to make a friend (because I know what this is going to resort to) but because I am also fed up with this hypocrisy. Why not give learning without flashcards a go, like what I did?

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Look- I know how this game goes. This is a “holy war”. You believe in your opinion, I just said your opinion is wrong, and now you feel the need to argue with me.

    I’ve played this game with thousands of people over the years when we disagreed over religion or politics or sports teams, and I’m just not interested.

    You come to MY blog to read MY ideas. If you want to discuss them with me, do it like an adult and I’ll happily do the same. But if you want to argue, I’m good at being an asshole and that’s what you’ll get.

  • http://howlearnspanish.com/ Andrew

    I think you did absolutely the right thing by making your next post about the what TO do instead of flashcards now that you’ve said people shouldn’t use them. All of those are good methods, and though I do think SRS is useful, I agree with you in that the MOST useful thing to do is to actually use the language, preferably by interacting with a native speaker in some way.

    Cheers,
    Andrew

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Look. Seriously. Stop fucking arguing for just one moment and think….

    Why are you arguing so passionately for the use of a tool that you admit is boring, and that you admit is not as good as all the things I just wrote about in this post?

    You’re essentially saying “yes, Randy, you’re 100% right, but you’re still wrong”.

    I don’t understand the motivation? Why all the energy? What are you gaining from this argument?

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Look. Seriously. Stop fucking arguing for just one moment and think….

    Why are you arguing so passionately for the use of a tool that you admit is boring, and that you admit is not as good as all the things I just wrote about in this post?

    You’re essentially saying “yes, Randy, you’re 100% right, but you’re still wrong”.

    I don’t understand the motivation? Why all the energy? What are you gaining from this argument?

  • http://twitter.com/hrhenry Rick Henry

    I’m actually kind of amazed that this is causing as much emotion as it is.

    I use flashcards. It’s not the only thing I use. It’s not anywhere near the most important tool I use. But I use them from time to time with my phone (I could also use my ebook reader, I suppose). Just like I use passive listening from time to time. And reading from time to time. And watching movies/shows in the language from time to time. And I write and speak the language I’m learning sometimes, too. Imagine that!

    It’s almost comical to see how defensive people get and feel the need to make it an “either/or” thing.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Agreed. I didn’t see the original text, (it appears to have been edited), but I do not support anyone making fun of another person’s language… ESPECIALLY on a language-learning web site!

  • Anonymous

    It wasn’t fun, it was just to prove my point. No englishman ever writes or says anything like that. It is, as I have said, stilted. It is also evidence that you have not spoken, written or listened to anyone in a real life context. You have just sat at home, with your textbooks, rehearsing pre-prepared conversations. What Randy is saying is (and I’ll put this in capitals to emphasise) : USE THE LANGUAGE AND DO NOT STUDY. It is not that difficult to understand.

    Why are you trying to make out that I was wrong to point out those two and then later on admit that they were mistakes?

  • Anonymous

    Can I just say Randy, I wasn’t making fun of his language and then edited it. The reason I edited was because of a spelling mistake. The proof of this is the fact that he has complained only 8 minutes ago when I edited it 21 minutes ago. How could he possibly, if his claim was valid, have seen any ridiculing? I do not make fun of any other language. I want to support people in their learning, as is shown in my message to Juan de Flores.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    You see…. there you go again, with your arrogant opinion. But if I respond to it, you’ll accuse me of being aggressive again.

    So instead, I’m going to teach you how adults have intelligent discussions. Maybe they don’t teach this in French schools… I don’t know.

    If you disagree with my opinion that they are “potentially destructive”, you can say “really? I don’t understand why you think that. please explain.” or, you could just say “I think I understand your opinion, but I disagree with it.”

    But when you come around saying things like “apparently Randy doesn’t understand…” you are the aggressor.

    And if you continue to write comments like that, you can be certain to expect more asshole responses from me.

  • Anonymous

    He says they are destructive because they make you translate word for word and do not teach you the context. Secondly, you have just said to me that you do not use them for speaking so do not keep contradicting yourself.

  • http://greg.hewgill.name/ Greg Hewgill

    Here’s another one: Talk to yourself, narrate your life. Making breakfast? Describe what you’re doing out loud. Ask yourself questions, justify your answers. Waiting in traffic? Practice your alphabet and numbers by reading the license plate number of the car in front of you. If you’re lucky enough to live in a place where products are often labelled with your target language (eg. Spanish in some places in the US or French in Canada), read all of it and use that as a source for new vocabulary. If you’re holding something or doing something you don’t know the word for, reach for your dictionary and look it up. Have imaginary conversations with imaginary people you’re having over for dinner (naturally this works better if you live alone).

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Totally! I do those things all the time. Every moment when I feel “bored”, I begin a conversation with myself in the language I’m learning. It helps my recall and also helps me figure out what words I still need to learn.

    Great comment. Thanks!

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    Here’s the video James mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDyZpwdSqs

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    Those who like using flashcards are saying you can use the target language in all ways – speaking, reading, writing, listening AND facilitate vocabulary retention by flashcards.

    But the point Randy was trying to hammer home was – you DON’T need to use flashcards if you FULLY engage in natural activities using the target language!

    You see – if you FULLY enjoy life in the target language, all the activities combined CONSTANTLY make your mind to learn, use, repeat, and re-activate vocabulary that you use on a daily basis – a purpose that flashcards were invented for.

    Of course, you can build HUGE vocabulary consisting of words OUTSIDE your active vocabulary in the target language using flashcards but what would be a practical application of that?

    If Randy’s blog would be called ‘How To Become a Walking Dictionary in a Year’, he would probably advocate using of flashcards as a great way of automating massive data input into your brain.

    However, Randy’s blog happens to promote learning languages through ‘living’ them and using them as means of experiencing things we enjoy in life. Therefore the argument of using flashcards simply falls BEYOND this blog’s scope!

  • Anonymous

    That was a really great way to sum up. Also, if you live the language, you are soaking in a lot of grammar that most find really boring. I cannot stress that enough. For example, my grammar is as good as it is (not waanting to sound pretentious here) because I lived english. I did not use flashcards or read grammar books!

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    If you FULLY use the good list, there’s no need for SRS.

    If you LIVE through the target language, life itself becomes like a natural SRS.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    I don’t use SRS to keep my English. Why would I need it for any other language?

  • Anonymous

    srs is just like flashcards, just with the order being decided by computer software, which you don’t want. You are the one who needs to be in control of your learning.

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    You nailed it!;-)

    By the way – I personally know a Latvian chap who learnt English EXCLUSIVELY by using it in his personal business. He started off five years ago part-time and now he’s a business mentor. He works with the UK market and when someone occasionally finds out his not British, they’re stunned because his English is absolutely natural.

    He’s never picked up a grammar book, textbook or a flashcard in his life. He soaked in the English language by living through it!

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    I think this is the most valid argument one can use to refute the need of using flashcards or SRS!

  • Anonymous

    Is latvian a difficult language to learn, would you say? I’m interested in learning it after I’ve done spanish, and finished off my french and italian (hopefully that won’t take long)

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    As for KEEPING the language – if one has to put extra effort in keeping it, then doesn’t one have to start questioning the reasons of learning it? I mean – if you don’t use the language at a degree that it retains itself naturally through USING it, then you most likely won’t use it anyway, I think.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Exactly! USE it.

    No one can ever convince me that flashcards are worth using when you could spend the same amount of time USING the language and retain it much better.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Your comments are growing more antagonistic, and I’m getting upset.

    Clean it up. Take a break. Stop commenting until you can add something more constructive to the conversation. I really don’t like banning people from commenting, but you’re just picking a fight now, and I’ll do it if I must.

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    Well, that’s a good question! A couple of months ago I would have said it’s difficult, but now I’m more inclined towards opinion that perceived language’s difficulty is a very relative term.

    If you analyse grammar constructs, and verb and noun conjugations – then yes, it’s difficult. If, on the other hand, you learn the language through natural use and your brain soaks in grammar naturally, then no, because you won’t need to judge it by terms ‘difficult’ or ‘easy’.

    In other words – if one tries to learn Latvian by trying to make sense of grammar, it would probably be head-racking. If you just accept the way things are spoken and learn them without asking yourself “but why this words here is used this way, but in the other sentence in a completely another way? It makes no sense!” it wouldn’t be more difficult than French I guess.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks Randy. That was definitely no longer about languages!

  • Anonymous

    Thanks Randy. That was definitely no longer about languages!

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    For what it’s worth, I don’t know Latvian, but I know some Lithuanian (which is similar) and I speak fluent Russian (which is in my opinion much more difficult), and I don’t think the grammar is as bad as people make it out to be.

    It’s all a matter of thinking in a new way. If you try to speak Latvian while thinking in English, it will be the hardest language you ever learned. But if you allow yourself to learn to think in Latvian, it’s a piece of cake… just like any other language.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    For what it’s worth, I don’t know Latvian, but I know some Lithuanian (which is similar) and I speak fluent Russian (which is in my opinion much more difficult), and I don’t think the grammar is as bad as people make it out to be.

    It’s all a matter of thinking in a new way. If you try to speak Latvian while thinking in English, it will be the hardest language you ever learned. But if you allow yourself to learn to think in Latvian, it’s a piece of cake… just like any other language.

  • Anonymous

    Paldies!

  • Anonymous

    We accepted your opinion but you did not except ours. You are just a typical french stereotype. And grammar has got nothing to do with the way you were acting.

    Hopefully Randy will deletes some of these comments as they have not contributed to the discussion at all.

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    Yes, Lithuanian and Latvian are sister languages; I suppose it’s like comparing Spanish and Portuguese or Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

    And I agree – if you speak Russian, Latvian would be a piece of cake! :-)

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    I have never criticized your ability in the English. Don’t make this about something that it’s not.

    This is about you picking a fight, and I’m not having it here. If you don’t want to come back, I don’t really care. But this blog is here for people to learn about language, and you’re welcome to come back if that’s what you want.

    I simply will not stand for your antagonism.

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    You’re off to a good start! :-)) Lūdzu!

  • Anonymous

    and it was all because of a few pieces of card!

  • Sara

    I disagree. I’m immersed in my new culture and I’m daily faced with new words to remember and retain. Sometimes I do a pretty good job and other times I just plain forget. Maybe it’s a thing of there being so much input that there’s only so much I’m going to remember at one time — I’m not sure. But I’m constantly speaking, writing, emailing, SMSing, worshipping, joking, etc. etc. amen in my target language. Maybe I’m just impatient, but there are still words/phrases/etc. I forget — then again, I do that also in my mother tongue, and still find myself looking up words in my mother tongue, so…

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    I think you already know the answers. Two things you said:

    “maybe I’m just impatient” – Yes, you probably are. It’s natural.

    “I do that also in my mother tongue” – Exactly. We forget what we don’t use, no matter what language it is.

  • Sara

    Totally agree with you about the talking to yourself thing, and using time spent out in traffic. Whenever I was on the bus or train or a passenger in the car, I had my dictionary with me and liked to look up the words on signs I didn’t understand. If I looked up the words and still didn’t get the meaning, I asked my husband or whoever I was with, or wrote them down to ask someone about later — more often than not it was something idiomatic that did need a bit of explanation.

  • Sara

    I wouldn’t have known that English isn’t your mother tongue. You write far better than a lot of native English speakers I know.

  • Sara

    I think I’m finally starting to get the argument. So, if I use the language extensively every day, and I’m forgetting words here and there that I’d like to remember (I don’t mean stuff like the the similar expressions for “soap”, “ball”, and “mother”), it’s just a matter of accepting that I’ll either get the words over time, if I truly need them, or either it’s no big deal because they’re not words I’ll be using very often? Would it be counterproductive to write down a list of words that slip my mind and make a review of them? I don’t meant to sound like an idiot; just want to make as much progress as possible, as soon as possible. Or maybe I should be more relaxed about my rate of progress; I don’t know.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    I think you’ve got it.

    The words you use regularly get remembered. The words you don’t use regularly got less importance. As your skill improves in the language, your attention naturally turns to more subtle things.

  • Sara

    I’m a native English speaker, and I’ve written online the equivalent of “I do read/listen/write/speak…”

    Also, I didn’t shake my head at how “I do not only” sounded — it didn’t sound strange to me. There’s such a wide variety of things that one can do with the English language… such a variety of a ways to express the same thought.

    In other words, Frapyy has great English, and if he’s writing everything he is without having to translate — if he’s freely typing English as it appears on the screen — then I have to respect whatever method he used to learn English. Was it the world’s undeniably most efficient way? Maybe, maybe not. But it seems to have worked well for him.

  • Sara

    … perhaps I should add that I’m a native American English speaker — maybe there’s more variety in what you’ll hear in American English than in British English. Maybe that’s why nothing in his comment above struck me as particularly odd.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sorry. That does sound normal and I think I took that too far, pointing out mistakes which were’t there. I should have just referred him to a comment I made on a previous post. This was just me trying to look clever.

    James

  • http://beyondbounds.org/ Jason Sharp

    This is a REALLY good point!

  • http://niel.delarouviere.com NielDLR

    My motivation lies in the fact that one can’t refute a choice of
    complementary language material. What works for one person, is
    another’s muse. I’ve got a short attention span, so flashcards get me
    all fidgety, but I know, if I can stick to it, it can help me
    immensely, and others as well. I have read countless success stories
    where people apply their language learning in addition with
    flashcards.

    Maybe I’m just sick of “polyglots” who are supposedly into language
    learning, who either 1) think Second Language Acquisition is like
    First Language Acquisition and 2) never stray from their “methods”
    ’cause it’s like the best method ever. There’s no humility and a sense
    of fallibility is lost. Language learning is a process and above all a
    learning process in itself.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, I’m still learning my second language but randy has used a different method for all his languages! How can you accuse him of not straying from his tried and tested method?

  • http://englishharmony.com Robby Kukurs

    Thanks! ;-)

  • http://niel.delarouviere.com NielDLR

    No, that’s not what I mean. I mean that sometimes one has to admit,
    although a method is not satisfactory to one’s own language learning
    process, that it has merit. In this case, flashcards. I know people
    will respond to this with their opinions and say I’m wrong and what
    not. But my opinion is the merit of flashcards in language learning
    cannot be put down. It works, but bluntly wailing pitchforks around is
    not going to help. Everyone works differently and that’s my point.
    Yes, Randy, does not like flashcards, but there’s no reason to
    extrapolate it into a complete failure of a method.

  • apw

    I absolutely won’t argue with the argument of not using SRS as it has happened to me. My girlfriend, who I met in my country learned English without SRS, without studying much and by simply speaking and using it. When I moved to her country, I studied grammar books, I built up an Anki vocabulary of nearly 4000 words, I purchased hundreds of books, and I got nowhere. I spent 2-3 hours everyday studying, doing pointless
    exercises, etc.

    True, I’m actually a walking dictionary, but I have to translate the word first. I can’t use the word in context without first seeing the Anki card. This in reality has done me more damage than good.

    I’ve noticed the stuff I do understand without translating is the stuff I use everyday, I hear on TV or in music or I use in conversation. I now simply spend my time watching movies, reading and talking and I’m making far better progress. I realised it was bad when I was reading a blog and saw a word and couldn’t think where I had see it before, until I realised it was one of my Anki words and I needed to translate it.

    It didn’t matter to me at the time that my girlfriend and all her friends learnt English without using flashcards, I believed the method was working for me, and I was wrong. I tried varying the way I was learning, i.e. Using whole sentences, etc. But flashcards have been my greatest hindrance.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Thank you for this comment. This is exactly what I’m trying to help people to see.

    Would you mind if I quote this in a future post?

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Neil, I believe you’re missing the point.

    This is not an argument about what I like or what I enjoy, and it’s not just a case where I’m saying what works for me is what everyone should do. You continue to argue as if that were the case, even to the point of insulting me on Twitter.

    The real problem here is that people “think” or “believe” that the flashcards are helpful, and because of that belief, they are unwilling to accept the fact that flashcards are ALSO harmful.

    Let me give you a different example. Imagine you learned to drive a car without using your hands — you use your knees to turn the steering wheel, and you never change gears. You could spend all day on my web site arguing that driving with your knees is good, because it allows you to get to the store and to work and to drive home. But you would be missing my point that it’s also fucking dangerous! And as long as you have hands, you should be using them, rather than your knees, to steer the car.

    You see, your flashcards argument is the same as the hypothetical drive-with-your-knees argument. You’re so fixated on the fact that you’re driving (learning a language) that you can’t understand that I’m warning you about the slow response time and painful extra work, all of which could be cured by using your hands when you drive (learning from more effective methods).

    Now, please, stop putting words in my mouth, stop building a straw-man argument against me, and stop the useless arguing. I understand that you disagree, you’ve made that abundantly clear. You’re just acting childish now.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    Wow, you’re really paying a lot of attention! I don’t think I’ve ever come out and said that, but you’re right — I’ve learned each of my languages in different ways, and I continue to refine what I know and how I learn.

  • Anonymous

    Yeh, I pick up on these things. I don’t do a lot in the evenings :)

    James

  • http://odisseaitaliana.com/ Tanisha

    I agree with you on the flash cards. And this is coming from someone who studied Italian for 3 years and now is living in Italy and believe me those flash cards did not help a bit. What I have learned is that I must stop translating. TRANSLATING in your brain is bad. SO now I am learning ways to express myself. Phrases I used a lot in English and use a lot in Italian. The fun thing about learning and speaking in a new language is you take on a new persona..crazy isn’t it?

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    I don’t think it’s so crazy. Each language has characteristics that make it different from others, and those characteristic have an effect on our thoughts. I recently read about scientists who had done brain imaging of people as they used their languages. Even simple words like “mother” lit up different parts of the brain when said in English vs Mandarin, for example.

    There is also the fact that our understanding of a language is inseparable from our exposure to it. Hence the reason Italian makes me feel in-touch and artistic, while Russian makes me feel strong and independent. It’s not just the language, but the people and the culture you experience with it.

    Thanks for commenting!

  • apw

    Not at all, please do

  • Friedemann

    I am a seasoned language learner and wordlists have always been an important part of my learning strategy. Of course I am aware of the fact that translations sometimes only approximate the meaning. Therefore I add a lot of context to my lists for words with a lot of different meanings. Whenever I pick up a new and useful phrase in a conversation or while reading, I’ll add it to my list in order to be able to review these words/phrases later.

    I find that when learning a foreign language your learning curve is so much steeper than when you naturally acquire your native language as a child that reviewing word lists is essential. I even maintain a wordlist for English even though I almost cannot remember not speaking English.

    I didn’t really understand your argument in your previous thread about constantly translating in your brain. A wordlist helps you solidify the “concept” of a new word and the best vehicle to do that is your own native language. I never found that my wordlists slow me down by forcing me to actively translate while speaking/listening. My wordlists are of course only one aspect of learning the language, besides a lot of reading speaking and listening.

    I do agree that pointing out mistakes in someone’s written English is out of order on a blog promoting language learning.

  • http://www.yearlyglot.com/ Randy the Yearlyglot

    I think that’s a fundamentally flawed point of view. The “best vehicle to do that” is NEVER your own native language! Words in one language simply do not mean the same thing as the “equivalent” word in another language.

    There are generations and centuries of context and connotation around every word, and trying to understand them based on how you understand your own language will always leave you with flawed assumptions.

  • Friedemann

    Since it is impossible to learn generations and centuries of context and connotations around every new word, using a reference from another language as a starting point is the next best thing I believe. This reference does not have to be my native tongue though. In my Mandarin studies I actually use both English and my native language (German) as reference. The more I use and encounter that word later on, the more it becomes a “concept” without a German tag attached to it. That’s the way it works for me.

  • http://www.spanish-only.com Ramses

    Randy, half of the “ways” you mention require productive skills. You won’t learn from producing, you will merely get better at producing. In order to be able to produce, you first need to put the language in through input. One of the ways to get good input is using flashcards, although you keep denying that.

    Remember that my flashcards exclude single word items and translation. I only use Spanish definitions (I’m learning Spanish) for the unknown words in the sentence. No translation there.

  • Katie

    If I’m not mistaken you criticized his use of “I do [insert verb here]” as evidence that using flashcards do not work, because that’s not how a native English speaker would speak. Not true. I do speak that way quite often.

    At any rate, that’s where you lost me, and also interesting to me was that he had said that he didn’t use flashcards to learn English.

    I don’t understand why one’s personal preference to use flashcards would be the spark of such an argument. It’s also ironic that flashcards are considered anti-social, but I consider arguing about flashcards to be antisocial. I mean, come on, of all the things to argue about. This is silly!

  • Katie

    That makes a lot of sense. Nonetheless, the five or ten minutes it takes to review in Anki on the bus or whereever isn’t going to hurt.

  • Katie

    I just see other problems here, not the use of flashcards. Endless drills, studying the grammar or going through some textbook (I’m assuming that’s what you mean) might give you a good grade in a class, but there’s little connection to that and speaking a language. Your girlfriend’s method was probably a whole lot more natural. No one “needs” flashcards, because our brains are wired to absorb words anyway, but making notes here and there, in whatever format, is only going to help, and this includes the use of flashcards. I’m still not getting how they can be a hindrance, unless one’s whole manner of language learning is off.

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